Add Me!Free website submission and site
promotionSearch Engine Optmization

Catholic Church holds it can restore as much Jewish moral and Jewish civil law as it wishes

 

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that Jesus made the Jewish Law obsolete.  The Church however still holds that the Law, as it came from God was right to order the stoning of gay people and adulterers and others to death.  The Church claims it can authorise the state to reinstate such laws.

 

Here is a chunk from the website of Catholic theologian and internet apologist expert Robert Sungenis: “

 

Now, let’s deal with the issue of Old Testament law. DiNovo is certainly correct in arguing that the Mosaic Law is obsolete. We are not under it any longer. In fact, anyone who puts themselves under the Mosaic Law will be condemned (Gal 3:10-12; 5:1-4). The New Testament makes a specific point of the Old Covenant’s obsolescence in several places (2 Cor 3:6-14; Hebrews 7:18; 8:7-13; 10:9). This would include the laws against homosexuality and the laws against eating shellfish. But what DiNovo doesn’t tell you is that, in the New Covenant (which replaced the Old Covenant), the Church re-established the moral code of the Mosaic Law, including the condemnation of homosexuality. Under the stipulations of the New Covenant, the Church has the right to re-establish any law from the Old Testament she desires to have (cf., Mt 16:18-19; Acts 15:1-12). That is why we see 9 of the 10 commandments re-established in Romans 13:9-10 (minus the law on Sabbath-keeping). That is why St. Paul can continue to denounce homosexuality in Romans 1:18-24 and 1 Cor 6:9 and 1 Tm 1:10, since he, as a New Testament apostle, has the authority to either keep or dispense with Old Testament moral and civil provisions. He does so in other ways in, for example, 1 Cor 9:9 when he uses the Old Testament law against muzzling the ox as a support for his wages as a minister.

 

Most Catholic theologians would agree with the Church having the power to restore any Old Testament law it likes.  But they would say that the Church cannot change the rule banning homosexuality for even the Church cannot make immorality moral.  To be a Catholic then means that you have to approve of the Church restoring the Inquisition to liquidate adulterous people and heretics and gay people if it so decides.  Or perhaps it can order the state to do it for it.  That is quite fanatical.  Religions that lead to murder start off with teachings like that.  They break down your belief that killing such people is necessarily wrong.  Its only wrong because the Church doesn’t say its right but not wrong in itself.

 

We will see that if you take the Bible seriously and you are ordered to do that you will go a lot further than that.

 

Top of the Document

 

WORKS CONSULTED

 

Alleged Discrepancies of the Bible, John W Haley, Whitaker House, Pennsylvania, undated

Christ and Violence, Ronald J Sider, Herald Press, Scottdale, Ontario, 1979

Christ’s Literal Reign on Earth From David’s Throne at Jerusalem, John R Rice, Sword of the Lord, Murfreesboro, Tennessee, undated

Early Christian Writings, Editor Maxwell Staniforth, Penguin, London, 1988

Essentials, David L Edwards and John Stott, Hodder & Stoughton, London, 1990 

Eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven, Uta Ranke-Heinmann, Penguin Books, London, 1991

God’s Festivals and Holy Days, Herbert W Armstrong, Worldwide Church of God, California, 1992

Hard Sayings Derek Kidner InterVarsity Press, London, 1972

Jesus the Only Saviour, Tony and Patricia Higton, Monarch, Tunbridge Wells, Kent, 1993 

Kennedy’s Murder, John R Rice, Sword of the Lord, Murfreesboro, Tennessee, 1964

Martin Luther, Richard Marius, Belknap Press of Harvard University Press, Cambridge Massachusetts, 1999

Moral Philosophy, Joseph Rickaby SJ, Stonyhurst Philosophy Series, Longmans, Green and Co, London, 1912

Not Under Law, Brian Edwards, Day One Publications, Bromley, Ken, 1994

Radio Replies Vol 2, Frs Rumble and Carty, Radio Replies Press, St Paul, Minnesota, 1940

Religion of Peace? Why Christianity is and Islam Isn't, Robert Spencer, Regnery Publishing Inc, Washington, 2007 - a curious book in that it simply doesn't mention how Christian Scriptures incited believers, eg Calvinists, to attack and destroy other believers who were thought to be heretics and doesn't mention the infallible decrees of the Roman Catholic Church commanding the violent destruction of heretics but wants to give the impression that unlike the Koran, the Christian Scriptures and the Christian religion do not make calls for religious violence

Sabbath Keeping, Johnie Edwards, Guardian of Truth Publications, Kentucky 

Secrets of Romanism, Joseph Zacchello, Loizeaux Brothers, New Jersey, 1984 

Set My Exiles Free, John Power, Logos Books, MH Gill & Son Ltd, Dublin, 1967

Storehouse Tithing, Does the Bible Teach it? John R Rice, Sword of the Lord, Murfreesboro, Tennessee, 1954

Sunday or Sabbath?  John R Rice, Sword of the Lord, Murfreesboro, 1943 

The Christian and War, JB Norris, The Christadelphian, Birmingham, 1985 

The Christian and War, Robert Moyer, Sword of the Lord Murfreesboro Tennessee 1946 

The Encyclopaedia of Bible Difficulties, Gleason W Archer, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1982 

The Enigma of Evil, John Wenham, Eagle, Guildford, Surrey, 1994 

The Gospel and Strife, A. D. Norris, The Christadelphian, Birmingham, 1987 

The Jesus Event, Martine Tripole SJ, Alba House, New York, 1980 

The Kingdom of God on Earth, Stanley Owen, Christadelphian Publishing Office, Birmingham

The Metaphor of God Incarnate, John Hick, SCM Press, London, 1993 

The Plain Truth about Easter, Herbert W Armstrong, Worldwide Church of God, California, 1957

The Sabbath, Peter Watkins, Christadelphian Bible Mission, Birmingham 

The Ten Commandments, Herbert W Armstrong, Worldwide Church of God, California, 1972 

The Truth that Leads to Eternal Life, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Brooklyn, New York, 1968 

The World Ahead, November December 1998, Vol 6, Issue 6 

Theodore Parker’s Discourses, Theodore Parker, Longmans, Green, Reader & Dyer, London, 1876 

Those Incredible Christians, Hugh Schonfield, Hutchinson, London, 1968

Vicars of Christ, Peter de Rosa, Corgi Books, London, 1995 

War and Pacifism, Margaret Cooling, Scripture Union, London, 1988

War and the Gospel, Jean Lasserre, Herald Press, Ontario, 1962 

When Critics Ask, Norman Geisler and Thomas Howe, Victor Books, Wheaton, Illinois, 1992

Which Day is the Christian Sabbath? Herbert W Armstrong, Worldwide Church of God, California, 1976 

 

Top of the Document

 

THE WEB

 

The Law of Moses: Is It Valid Today?   

www.ark_of_salvation.orgJewish_law.htm

 

The Law of Moses and the Law of Christ by Arnold Fruchtenbaum

 www.ariel.org/ff00006c.html

 

Is Old Testament Law for New Testament Christians

www.souldevice.org/writings_law_gospel.html

This Christian site accepts that the New Testament did not run the Law of Moses out of town but accepted it.  It argues that Matthew 5 has Jesus stating that he has no intention of doing away with the Law of Moses and what he does with it is he gives out a stricter interpretation of it.  But strangely it argues then that Jesus did discontinue some parts of the Law.  1 Samuel 15:22,23/Isaiah 1:11-17/Jeremiah 7:21-23/Proverbs 21:3/Matthew 9:13/23:23 are said to make no sense unless the law can be given three distinctions which are Moral, Ceremonial and Civil.  Not once however in these verses does God even hint that the Moral laws and the Civil laws and the Ceremonial laws are to be treated as three units.  What they are is three different kinds of law in one law based on love. The first two cannot be changed because of the link with morality but the latter can if it is only temporary and states that clearly.  You can’t change what love is.  The law plainly commands and practices hatred so God is assuming that we need to hate in order to love properly so that is how a law of love can encourage and foster hatred.

 

Christians, assuming that they are to have any distinctions at all, are to have just Moral and Ceremonial law.  The Christians make the distinctions for they hold that the moral law of God is unchangeable while the civil and ceremonial law of God is changeable.  But when there is no evidence that moral and civil are not the same they can only hope for the abolition of the Ceremonial law.  They simply have to hold that it is right to slay homosexuals and other sinners Moses wanted dead in the name of God. 

 

A case for holding that Paul believed that the law that could not save was a legalistic interpretation of the Law and not the law itself as it actually was is dismissed.  Paul never hinted that he meant only the interpretation of the law was dangerous for salvation not the Law itself.  Paul’s word for the Law backs this dismissal up. 

 

 

Then the site suggests the correctness of the shocking statement of the theologian Geisler that all God’s laws must be in accord with God’s nature but need not be necessitated by that nature and so they can be changed.  In other words, God can forbid you to pay taxes to the temple so that the poor may be given the money and then he could change that law.  But that does not explain how he could command the stoning of certain sinners.  Any law he makes, changeable or unchangeable is designed to bring about the best.  So if the Israelites were better rid of these sinners so were we.  If the temple can do without money it can at other times so the law would have to be reinstated.  There is a sense then in which all his laws are permanent.  They are permanent but if other permanent laws become more important than them they are just put to the background and not done away until they can be put back to the foreground again.  Not one of the laws in the Torah are claimed to be changeable or even look like that kind of law.  They are all different from the one about paying money to charity instead of the temple.  God in the Law said you could murder a burglar who breaks into your house at night with impunity.  Now is that a law that isn’t necessitated by God’s nature?  It does no good at all.  It clearly indicates that God does not accept the view that he has any laws that his nature does not require him to make but which he makes anyway.  It is unnecessary and it is against the nature of a good God.  Geisler is wrong.

 

The Law claims to be right.  In other words, we are meant to see that it is right even if we don’t believe in God.  God told the Hebrews that other nations would consider them to be the wisest nation on earth because of their Law (Deuteronomy 4:6,8).

 

At least Geisler would admit that stoning people to death is not necessarily incompatible with God.  He would say that if God doesn’t allow it now, he still wants us to have the mindset that we would do it if he asked.  We want to do it but it is because he asks us not to that we don’t.  The fanaticism is still there.

 

 

Is Old Testament Law for New Testament Christians

www.souldevice.org/writings_law_gospel.html

 

 

 

BIBLE QUOTATIONS FROM: 

The Amplified Bible 

 

13/06/2008

 

Top of the Document