UNCEASING PUNISHMENT
IS BIBLICAL
EVERLASTING
PUNISHING IN THE GOSPELS
DIVES AND LAZARUS – ONE OF
JESUS’ “TRUE STORIES”
WHAT DOES
GEHENNA IN MARK 9 MEAN?
The
Catholic Church claims to be infallible when it intends to be and speaks to the
whole Church. Everlasting punishing
torment for those who die estranged from God is a dogma of the faith. Deny it and you deny what God has said
through the Church. Deny it and you deny
that the Church is really unable to err in matters of faith and morals. Deny it and you deny that Catholicism is the
true faith and affirm that it is just a load of human opinion and not a
divinely revealed faith.
Origen
felt that the pains of Hell might only be temporary and at least three synods
shot him down for that (page 84, Reason and Belief).
The
idea of a Hell that is unlimited in time seems to have been made official in
543 AD. The Synod of Constantinople
revealed the doctrine officially.
Lateran
IV in 1215 AD infallibly decreed that the wicked “will receive perpetual
punishment with the devil and the others everlasting glory with Christ” (DS
801, cf. 411).
The
Council of Florence in 1442 declared, “The holy Roman Church…firmly believes,
professes and proclaims that none of those outside the Catholic Church, not
Jews, nor heretics, nor schismatics, can participate in eternal life, but will
go into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are
brought into [the Catholic Church] before the end of life” (DS 1351). See also Reason and Belief page 84-85
which adds the information that this bigotry was also sanctioned and clarified
under the authority of Pope Eugene IV.
Incidentally,
modern
Views
like this made Romish Christianity the most murderous religion in the
world. If people should be sent to
everlasting punishing just because they have not been made Catholics by pure
chance then they are not fit to live.
Nobody can be condemned for killing what is worthless.
Benedict
XII in 1336 wrote in his Constitution, Benedictus Deus, “We define that
according to the general disposition of God the souls of those who die in
actual mortal sin go down immediately after death into Hell and are there
tormented by the pains of Hell” (DS 1002).
In 1892 the Inquisition decided under Leo XIII that a priest who refused to forgive the sins of a penitent who denied that there was real fire in Hell was right (page 85, Reason and Belief).
God will not make a Hell with fire unless there are people to be put in it. The Book of Revelation says that there are some beings there. Some liberal theologians agree but say there is no Bible verse that asks us to believe that any human being is in Hell. But Jesus did say that some will rise again to be lost forever. If people to go Hell for neglecting prisoners as Jesus says that means quite a few will end up there. And Jesus spoke more about Hell than Heaven or salvation! He warned about it and said that we must squeeze through the narrow gate for the road to damnation is wide. If nobody goes to Hell then why worry about Hell? Why not convert to Judaism if you are a Christian who feels like a change? If Hell is not a place but a mental state or a state of existing without God then Hell does not exist and the Bible is wrong to say it does exist if it is true that nobody goes there. God can't know if Hell is possible if nobody chooses it or goes there. He can't know who your grandfather would have married if not your grandmother and that is because your grandfather married your grandmother.
The
doctrine of eternal punishment is clearly taught in the Bible though you have
to think it out at times to see for yourself.
It
first raises its shocking head in the Book of Daniel (12:2) where it is
forecasted that the wicked will rise to everlasting contempt and shame unlike the
just who will rise to everlasting life.
Their sin cannot be forgiven ever when the shame and contempt is
unending. God wants the saints to be
happy so the contempt is not theirs nor his but the hatred of the damned have
towards one another. When he says the
life and the abhorrence are everlasting it is clear that everlasting is meant
in the same sense in both. Nobody would
talk about everlasting life meant literally and everlasting contempt not meant
literally in the same breath for then no sense can be made out of them. When the wicked in Hell will face hate
forever it follows that they will be there forever.
The
view that the contempt can be everlasting though the wicked are not and they
perish is wrong. Why raise people up to
kill them again? The contempt won’t need
to exist anymore when they are dead.
The
doctrine of everlasting punishing is clear in the gospels.
The
Book of Revelation tells us that the smoke of the torment of those who commit
idolatry will ascend “forever and ever” [eis aioonas aioonoon – literally, from
ages to ages] (
Of
the Devil, the false prophet and the beast it is said that, “The devil who had
led them astray [deceiving and seducing them] was hurled into the fiery lake of
burning brimstone, where the beast and false prophet were; and they will be
tormented day and night forever and ever (through the ages of the ages)”
(Revelation 20:10).
It
seems to some that here the Devil and the false prophet and the beast are
symbols for the forces hostile to God which enables them to think that this
line is symbolic and does not literally refer to any person being forced to
undergo ceaseless punishment. But
Revelation does not consider the Devil a symbol. If, for example, the false prophet represents
the people who tell religious lies it is stupid and meaningless to say that his
eternal torment is a symbol. Meaningful
symbols must picture the reality. The
only way false prophecy can be tormented forever is if it exists forever and
does not succeed in its goal of deluding people and false prophecy only exists
forever if false prophets exist as long.
But the prophet is probably just the ultimate false prophet and one
man.
The
Dawn Bible Students have argued that the torment of Satan is not literal
personal torture for Satan forever but only refers to Satan being tortured
forever by the derision of the people of God though he does not exist. It is like the way you can torture a man who
does not live any more (page 40, The Truth About Hell). But there is no evidence for this
off-the-beaten-track interpretation. The
Dawns point to the verses about Satan’s destruction as evidence but none of
them make it clear that he will be literally destroyed as in being put out of
existence. When the Bible never says
that eternal in relation to Hell is just roughly referring to a long time and
not forever it is clear that we should not take it to mean a long time.
Death
and Hades were thrown into the pool of fire which is the second death
(Revelation
The
Hell in this case means the grave. The grave
is Hell in the sense that it is your final destruction for sin – not meaning
there isn’t torment in Hell - unless there is a resurrection. Death and Hell dying in the fire is a
metaphor that the beings in the fire will never die.
It
is a mistake to argue that the tormented forever and ever bit is non-literal
because it says they were hurled into fire and fire destroys. God can prevent fire from destroying.
Sin
is intending to offer God an infinite offence so each and every sinner is as
evil as the Devil. The Bible says that
the Devil will be tortured for all eternity so this must happen to every
sinner. When it happens the Devil and
death and the false prophet it will happen to other sinners too.
Non-believers
in everlasting torment claim that the forever in both verses here is not to be
taken literally any more than a person saying, “I will be washing this floor
forever at this rate”, is to be taken this way.
It is obvious that the texts couldn’t mean forever in a figurative
way. They don’t hint at a non-literal
interpretation so that interpretation should be shunned. It was too serious a revelation for Jesus to
be vague on anything. His listeners
would have taken him literally. When God
says something is everlasting he has the power to make it everlasting. So with him the word
everlasting means literally everlasting.
The
texts that seem to say that the wicked will not be “destroyed” or “perish” as
their final punishment are not to be taken literally for they translate the
Greek word, apollumi, which is simply used in some places to mean lost (Luke
15) or to have become useless (Matthew 9:17).
You can destroy a person without killing that person. In Revelation 17:8, we read that the Beast
shall be destroyed or go into perdition.
The word here can be translated perdition or destruction. In Revelation 19:20, we are informed that the
beast and his prophet will be thrown alive into a lake of fire and a millennium
later the Devil is cast into it too and we read that all three will be in
torment forever. So the destruction they
experience is not annihilation. This
suggests that the lake of sulphur preserves its victims in torment and when it
is a lake and not a mere pool it shows that it was meant for more than these
three. One may go to Hell at death but
these people could have been in Hell all the time and behaved normally for God
can inflict the pains of Hell anywhere and miraculously.
Hebrews
6:2 alludes to eternal judgment. Some
say that if a sinner is put out of existence that sinner is still judged as a
sinner forever so this phrase does not imply everlasting punishing. It does for it is not a fair judgment to kill
a sinner for it is neglecting to punish their sin. It is no more punishment than falling
asleep. Hebrews states that getting on
the wrong side of God is a horrific thing (
As
the main thing fire does is destroying and not causing pain it is supposed by
many scholars that the biblical references to everlasting fire mean a fire that
destroys sinners and does not torment them.
But it is just as easy to use fire as a symbol of pain as of destruction. A symbol does not have to resemble what it
pictures in every respect. Experientially,
the pain is worse than being destroyed in it.
There are people who could have existed but who didn’t. Are they being punished by not existing? Does it do them any harm? No.
Not
even once does the Bible say that the wicked will be punished with the ultimate
cessation of existence, apart from the end of earthly life, alone.
Paul
declared that if Jesus has not risen from the dead one of the consequences is
that the dead are lost (1 Corinthians 15).
The dead could live without a resurrection therefore he means they will
suffer eternally in a bad place if Jesus has not risen and are spiritually
lost. The dead are not God’s friends if
Jesus did not rise. You cannot be
spiritually lost if you are non-existent so the dead would have to be alive but
opposed to God. Even sincere repentance
and faith cannot save if Jesus had not risen (v17). If God would consign everybody to Hell or
keep them in their sins – which religion says is worse than hellfire - if Jesus
did not come to rise from the dead, God is capable of making a Hell and sending
people to it. Indeed there must be a
Hell for those who attack the resurrection and for Christians if they are wrong
about the way to salvation.
Paul
said that if Jesus has not risen the dead are lost forever for God will not
save them. Even though Jesus could still
have died to atone for sinners God will not save them. This infers that God is perfectly capable of
giving people no second chance that they could have under better circumstances
that they cannot help. He can give you
no more chances and will put you in a Hell forever. Thought that God was so kind that if you do
your best and really want salvation he will give it for your intention is what
counts? If no atonement was made and you
would accept one if there were, God would have to accept you on this
logic. The doctrine of Jesus being the
only way to salvation and everlasting happiness is monstrous.
The Bible informs us that
the fire of Hell which torments the damned doesn’t give off light when it says
that Hell is dark or it could mean that the damned are blind (Jude 13).
Some suggest on the basis of this that the fire of Hell is a metaphor. But God can make fire and prevent its light
from being visible or maybe the fire is bright but the damned cannot see
it. If Hellfire were a metaphor it would
represent something as painful as the pain of burning for the symbol must
accurately resemble the thing symbolised.
The Book of Daniel has three young men who God preserved from pain and
being burned in the middle of a furnace.
Where miracles are possible this is possible. This means that anybody who says the fire of
Hell is not literal is a heretic for it could be so the Bible means it is
literal. Even if it is absurd the
writers of the Bible would not have been educated enough or in the right way to
realise that.
Some texts seem to say that
all will have salvation (Romans 5:19) but it is important to remember that all
(or the equivalent) is a word that is not used literally all the time. It is often meant to be understood with its
obvious exceptions. When the pope says
that Jesus saved all from Hell he means all those who will not go to Hell
forever because he is taking it for granted that we know about Hell.
It is stupid to say that
everlasting punishment exists but that there is nobody undergoing it for then
it wouldn’t be eternal punishment and Jesus must have lied for he said that
people do go there.
That it is good to send
people to Hell forever is implied by the doctrine that Jesus had to suffer and
die to save us (John 14:6; Acts 4:12) - which features more strongly in the
non-gospel scriptures - and its partner, the doctrine that salvation is
impossible unless this sacrifice is accepted by you and appropriated. If Jesus had to suffer and die for us then
this implies that God refused to forgive and save unless he died. He is capable of putting people in Hell
forever. But if Jesus came to save us from
eternal punishment that does not mean that eternal punishment happens though it
must be possible when he came to save us from it. But still it shows we have the kind of God
that would inflict it even if he doesn’t.
If a God who does it is bad so is this God.
Heretical Christian teachers
say that Hell is against the will of God and he does not punish there. What happens is that people go there and
inflict it on themselves.
A judge who sends a thief to
jail not for his crime but because he doesn’t like him is not
punishing him. He is taking
revenge on him and using the legal system to do it. It only outwardly looks like punishment. To punish you must intend to punish.
Jesus could not have called
Hell eternal punishment if people punish themselves there for they cannot. If they hate God then they wouldn’t punish
themselves for sin. To do that is to
condemn themselves for hurting God and doing him the favour of paying for it. They are not making themselves pay for
opposing God – for to punish is to hurt as you intend to pay back evil for
evil. They are hurting themselves to
offend him for he is against unnecessary suffering. They are trying to punish him and they are
not punishing themselves though they make themselves suffer for their motive is
not to punish themselves. So God must
force them to suffer if they are under punishment. They do not want to be punished for they hate
his will. They have a choice between
suffering for his will and repenting.
They know they should do themselves a favour and repent when they are
doing his will by being punished anyway.
When they choose to stay it shows that they will remain in Hell
forever. To say that God does not punish
in Hell is to deny what Jesus said.
The doctrine of everlasting
punishment is in the Bible. Anyone who
rejects it rejects the Bible. Not that
we are complaining but we don’t like trendy ministers and priests getting
acceptance from the people through manipulating them with syrupy versions of
nasty doctrines.
Lots
of Christians surmise that Jesus was such a wonderful guy that he would not
have even countenanced teaching a doctrine like that about sinners going to be
left in agony forever. If they mutilate
the gospel doctrine that he did teach this then they are left with a Jesus they
have made up and not one that can be called the real Jesus in any real
sense. If you throw away the gospels you
have to throw their Christ away as well.
In
John 5:29, Jesus informs us regarding his conviction that the dead sinners will
rise again to judgment and condemnation.
God would not resurrect them just to destroy them or to air their dirty
laundry before the saints for he could do this without bringing them back from
the dead. He must plan to torment
them. When he raises them to make them
suffer it is clear that he wants to punish every sin. He cannot annihilate them as long as they
wallow in rebelling which will be forever for them.
Jesus
stressed the need to repent fast and warned about the judgment. Would he have done these things if he had not
had a Hell for sinners forever in mind to warn us about? If the world was going to suffer repentance
would not save you from it so he was on about something that was waiting for us
after death. It was something that
repentance could not save us from. If
you went to Hell and could get out by saying sorry there would be no need for
the sense of urgency that circulates all through the teaching of Jesus. Jesus risked his life to preach which proves
that he did believe in Hell. The liberal
Christian fantasy of a Jesus who did not preach everlasting condemnation is
just that: a fantasy.
Jesus
told parables to illustrate his doctrine that anybody who was not prepared to
meet him would be cast away from his presence and that their pain and
loneliness would be intense. He spoke of
the foolish virgins who went to the dealers to buy oil so that they could watch
for the master for their lamps were going out and who came back to find they
were closed out of the wedding for not being ready. They all cry and weep but he ignores them
instead of telling them to repent showing that they can no longer repent and
end their sorrow (Matthew 25). If they
could repent some of them at least would do it.
And why cry and weep so much if you can escape the pain? It can be argued that they did repent when
they went off to the dealers but God had decreed that it was too late. He also declared that anybody who did not
develop his power to love God would be cast out into darkness where there will
be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 24:50, 51). The miserable souls cannot repent of the sin
that excuses them from God for if they could they would. God must have done something to them so that
they cannot do it. It only takes a
minute of such sorrow to show people how much they need God but when these are
said to be in such pain it shows that God is no longer interested in restoring
them to his friendship. This shows that their
despair will never ever lighten. Eternal
punishment includes eternal despair.
Jesus
predicted that on judgement day all those who were not kind to others would go
into “never-ending punishment [kolasin aioonion]” (Matthew 25:46 – my
version). The Greek word, derived from
kolasis which is translated punishment does not mean annihilation though some
say it does. It appears in 1 John 4:18
which says that “fear makes you restrained [or punished]” (my version) and
cannot mean annihilation here – note the present tense. Earlier in the same sentence, Jesus spoke of
“never-ending life [zoozeen aioonion]” meaning everlasting happiness in
Heaven. If the punishment ends so does
the life of Heaven so we ought to take the word never-ending (aioonion)
literally. Annihilation is not a
punishment but a kind of reward for there is nothing to dread about ceasing to
exist so it is crazy to suppose that the punishment is cessation of
existence. Annihilation means treating
the worst sinner the same as the not-so-bads.
Jesus
will say to the unjust, “Begone from Me, you cursed, into the eternal fire
prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41). The fire puts out of existence or it torments
or both. God would not keep the fire lit
after it has destroyed the wicked and eradicated evil for the saved cannot sin
for they are too happy to and don’t need the reminder. God does not need a fire to destroy the wicked. So when Jesus said the fire is everlasting it
must be maintained for the purpose of tormenting sinners. This sentence was uttered at a most solemn
moment so it is absurd to say that Jesus is speaking in symbols. Can you imagine a judge sentencing a man to
death and saying that he meant he wanted the man put in jail only which he
considers to be a living death?
Surely if God does not need a fire to destroy the wicked he does not need a fire to torment them with either! Yes he would if he intends to use the fire as a form of torture! It's up to him.
Jesus called them cursed. Cursed by whom? He is cursing them. He is wishing evil on them. If people are so bad that they have to be destroyed then you are not getting your own back on them but doing the right thing. You wouldn't curse them or declare them cursed. You would if you are consigning them to everlasting punishment. Curse is very strong and Jesus says begone from me. They go to a torment prepared for Satan and his angels. There is no room in any of this for a Hell that for some at least is just as bad as an eternal mild toothache.
Some
say there is a contrast between everlasting life and everlasting punishment
meaning that the latter must represent death.
But then as now people who had a hard time of it were said to have no
life. That could be the meaning of the
contrast and it probably is for it is more natural to use the word death than
punishment when you mean annihilation. Jesus said this punishment is fire meant
for the Devil and his angels. When God
needs a fire though he can destroy without it we see a hint that the fire is
not just for destruction but for tormenting.
Since some think the fire was prepared for the Devil and his angels at
the end of the world it is said that it was because that is the time they will
be put out of existence. But the Devil
and his angels don’t have bodies so the fire must be for tormenting them. It is not fire as we know it but a magic fire
and therefore one that could torment forever.
Jesus never said the fire would be made at the end of the world.
When
the fire is prepared for the Devil and his angels though it was known that
there would be plenty of human sinners to go there it implies
something. It infers that its purpose is
tormenting punishment. How do we know? The fire was made before the world began for
the Devil and his angels were around then.
The Devil and his angels for whom it was prepared were thrown in then. It was made for them at the start. There were no people made yet which does not
exclude God intending to throw any people who were as bad in later. But since Satan and his angels are alive now according
to the gospels it follows that the fire is for torturing for they are still
alive in it.
Jesus
told the Jews that whoever blasphemed the Holy Spirit would not be saved in
this world or pardoned or in the world to come but has committed an eternal
sin. This implies Hell. He told the Jews they committed this
blasphemy for the gospel says that was the reason he spoke up about the eternal
sin. This is a sin you commit continuously
forever.
Jesus
said, “We must work the works of Him Who sent Me and be busy with His business
while it is daylight; night is coming on, when no man can work” (John
9:4). Then he said he was the light of
the world. He said this to his disciples
on the occasion when they met a blind man.
Some use this verse to show that Jesus did not really believe in an
afterlife. But maybe Jesus just meant
that those who had died without God could do nothing for God anymore like in
Hell. If he meant that then he was
saying that for those who died alienated from God it was too late - the rupture
was final and that the saved could not merit or work for God anymore.
It
may be objected that Jesus included himself when he said we so he did not mean
all this because as God he couldn’t stop deserving and working. But the biblical Christ never claimed to be
God but said he was not God and so sin was possible for him. But sometimes people mean you lot by we but Jesus had to choose his words carefully and we have
no reason to think he had this habit.
Some,
contradicting the other gospels, claim that the whole world will go over to
Satan when Jesus leaves and that was what he meant.
Some
surmise that Jesus meant that now is the time for miracles which will not
happen once Jesus departs which is improbable for early tradition attributed
miraculous powers to the apostles after Jesus ascended even though the apostles
could do things that were not evidently supernatural – unless you want to
believe the apostles were apostates and faked their miracles. The first interpretation which speaks of
everlasting punishment is the right one or the most probable one to say the
least.
The
“Bible” religions which claim that the Bible teaches that the wicked will
simply permanently pop out of existence at death are silly for how could Judas
have been better off if he had never been born (Mark 14:21) if his death was
the end or if he would rise again to be burned to death instantly or have a
second chance? It is better to live and
abuse a life than never to have lived at all.
God must be ready to give him life beyond the grave to torment him. When he will do this he will do the same with
everybody. God will make sure Judas does
not repent to keep him in sin if he raises him and if he raises him and he
himself says that punishing a person is not as bad as this for there is nothing
worse a person can do to themselves than sin (Mark 9). When he does that he would and will punish
Judas from everlasting to everlasting.
When sin is supposed to be so terrible though it is often fun for us
that implies that our happiness is lowest in the scale of what God cares about
in our regard. You couldn’t expect
anything but a Hell from the likes of him if you die in sin.
The Christ of the gospels preached the existence of everlasting torture for the wicked. It is dishonest to ignore this and still call him infallible for the gospels are the only grounds for taking him seriously at all.
Jesus told a story about a rich man who neglected a poor man and who went to Hell to be punished for it forever. The rich man looked up and saw the poor man in Paradise. His tongue was in grave agony in the flame. He asked for a drop of water to soothe it and if the poor man could be miraculously sent to put it on his tongue. His request was refused as it was impossible for anybody to cross from Paradise to Hell. He asked then that the poor man be sent to his living brothers to warn them about Hell by rising from the dead. This was refused as well on the grounds that they would not listen anyway. This suggests that they didn't believe in Hell but that would not stop them being damned when they die.
There is no hint in the story that it is a parable. Jesus meant it literally. It was intended to show that the fires of Hell are extremely tormenting and are so bad that you would do anything even for a seconds relief on the pain on your tongue. It was intended to show that you can go there for forgetting the poor. It was intended to show that the damned do indeed have concerns about others and stopping them going to Hell. It shows there is no escape. The rich man did not that he be raised to warn his brothers. This illustrates the point.
Objections to the story being intended as a true story do not work. For example, the rich man's tongue being in such agony is thought to be strange for his sin was neglect of the poor. But the narrative doesn't say it was the only sin he was damned for. It is said that the rich man having a body when his brothers were alive on earth cannot be explained. But God could give the damned a makeshift body to suffer. Another possibility is that the rich man wanted the poor man to go back in time to warn the brothers. Even if that were impossible that would not stop him being told that there was no point for they would not listen. So we could be talking about the rich man and the poor man after the resurrection.
Christians want to pretend that we make our own Hell and God has nothing to do with it. It's a little stupid fad of theirs. If that is true then why do they believe in the resurrection of the damned? Surely then God is making bodies just for the sake of tormenting them physically?
Hell or Hades may refer to the
grave at times in the Bible but at other times they denote a place of
punishment. In Psalm 16 the author
expresses his belief that God will not leave his soul in Hell meaning the
grave. What Hell or Hades mean in the
Bible is determined by the context.
Jesus said the gates of
Hades would not destroy his Church in Matthew 16. But if you substitute death for Hades it
still makes sense and means that the powers of death will not kill the Church
off. Hades gave up its dead in
Revelation 20:13 but that could mean that the dead were raised from the
grave.
Psalm 116:3 says that the
distressing circumstances of Sheol disturb the psalmist. Psalm 55:15 is a prayer for people to go to
Sheol alive. Psalm 49 says you can be
rescued from Sheol. But none of these
references need refer to a place. They
still make perfect sense if you substitute the word death for Sheol. Sheol then is the grave for there is no need
to go any further.
Tartarus was the horrible
place where many dead went after death.
It was a dark and forbidding prison.
It is mentioned in 2 Peter 2:4.
One thing is for sure Tartarus is not a symbol for death. You would not use Heaven as a symbol for life
in a new book when everybody else means a nice place after death by the word. The word proves that the early Christians did
believe in a literal Hell contrary to the likes of Jehovah’s Witnesses who just
casually brush the reference off.
In Revelation 1:18 Jesus
says he has the keys of Hell and death.
This is thought to prove that Hell is not everlasting punishment when
Jesus has the keys for when death and Hell are already locked he must only keep
the keys to open them. But Jesus can
have the keys and not use them to open.
It shows that Hell is not
death. The only alternative is that it
is a place of torment.
In Mark 9, Jesus called the
apostles around him and he told them that it was better for them to cut off
body parts that led them into sin for sin merited Gehenna. He informed them that it is better to enter
life without them than to be flung into Gehenna with the parts all intact and
that the worm of the condemned there will never die (Mark 9:48). He added that they would be cast into flames
that would never go out. Contrary to
many cults he never actually said that the body would be destroyed there. He believed in the story of the three young
men in Daniel who were in the furnace and never burned so fire did not mean
necessary destruction to him.
Four meanings have been
proposed for Gehenna. The dump for the
bodies of criminals outside
Does Gehenna refer to the
dump outside
The first clue is that it is
said to the apostles. There was no point
in Jesus telling the apostles to avoid being cast into the city dump. They were unlikely to deserve it. It was not the city dump.
Jesus had accused the Jewish
leaders whose decision it was if a person should be put to death of hypocrisy
and cruelty beyond belief. If he meant
Gehenna the dump then he was speaking to the apostles as if that could happen
to them and was warning them which would be telling them to stay on their right
side at all costs. But the Jewish
leaders hated them all anyway and Jesus openly wanted the people to look upon
the leaders with disdain. He wanted the
apostles on his side. The leaders
thirsted for their blood. So his meaning
was that it is better not to sin than to be thrown into Gehenna. This proves that God does the throwing in because
only God knows if you have really sinned or not. Women and men cannot perceive the motives of
others.
Worm is a symbol of revolting
punishment for Jesus did not say their worms but their worm – liberal Bibles
often omit this their out of prejudice and duplicity and substitute worms. He is suggesting that they are being
tormented by one big worm – perhaps it eats them whole and they come out the
other end alive and whole. This worm
will never die, he says, so it may represent everlasting punishment
symbolically or it may really be a monster from Hell which is more likely for
there is no evidence that it is a symbol.
He doesn’t mean that the worm dies not because it has plenty of meat for
he would have said that if he did. The
worm must be immortal. It is a monster
in Hell. It is like it eats and excretes
the people as wholes to grant them extra torment.
Jesus said everybody in
Gehenna would be salted by fire and that is why the fire would not be quenched
(v48, 49). When you salt something you
put it all over it. Also salt implies
that they are food for monsters. If
everybody there burns then the worm must symbolise a gruesome and revolting
punishment. It must be a monster for ordinary worms would die in the blaze.
Moreover, salt is
preservative. If everyone in Hell is salted
with fire then the fire preserves them.
This means preserving the person.
The dump of Gehenna is for the living and not the dead unlike that of
the Jerusalemites, the end of the world dump and the grave. Jesus then told us to have salt in
ourselves. That is, we must preserve
ourselves in the painful fires of goodness.
There was no need for Jesus to stress the everlasting if it does not
torment forever.
Jesus said it was better to
lose a limb or an eye than to sin so as to be thrown into Gehenna. This would only be true if it were a place of
far greater horror than the city dump.
That Jesus used Gehenna for
the city dump elsewhere does not mean that he had it in mind here in Mark. It was a place of horror and evil and that is
why he called the state of eternal torment Gehenna.
Gehenna was not the city
dump. The dump for sinners made by God
in Hell was called Gehenna for it was like it in many respects.
Jesus said that the flames
of Gehenna are unquenchable. This means
eternal. The view that the fires would burn
themselves out is not in the Bible. Unquenchable
stands for eternal because why even mention the unquenchable aspect otherwise? Jesus said that it was unquenchable to warn
people about how invincible the fire was.
The force of the warning would be destroyed if you assume it was unquenchable
but would burn itself out. Jesus didn’t seriously
think somebody throwing water on the fires was a possibility.
Does Gehenna refer to a dump
that God will make at the end of time to cast all those who wouldn’t obey him
and where they will be permanently destroyed?
Nowhere, does the Bible say
that there will be such a dump except a place of conscious eternal
torment. The picture of the worm proves
that the heap the wicked will end up on is not one of corpses but of living
suffering beings.
Jesus was speaking of the
punishment by worm and unquenchable fire (that will probably burn itself out
which does not mean it is necessarily quenchable) and the prophet predicted
this for the dead bodies of evildoers (Isaiah 66:24). The prophet said it would happen after the
end of the world when everybody on earth would love God. The fact that Jesus said that the person who have this fate would live on there is
reconcilable with Isaiah’s doctrine that they would be corpses for God can make
them alive yet bound to a body that is a corpse to condemn them to a kind of
living death. If body and soul are
separate or if God can change the human constitution to make this possible then
it is possible for God to unite a corpse and a soul in a macabre and
nightmarish marriage of life and death. A
living person can have dead arms and legs so God can make it happen to the
whole body. And since Jesus said that it
is better to have a miserable life on earth than to suffer in Gehenna it is
clear that the people there can’t escape or change God’s mind. The prophet and Jesus then spoke of the same
thing.
If they did not then how did
Jesus come to so be influenced by the language of Isaiah if they did not mean
the exact same thing? But Jesus was
merely borrowing phrases from Isaiah and did hint that this was for aesthetic
literary reasons when he differed from and added to it. But no such hint was made.
We must remember that the
resurrection of the wicked does not imply that the wicked will have immortal
bodies. Perhaps they will wage war
against God when they arise and are destroyed on the earth and then raised
again to suffer another worse dose of a permanent Gehenna.
The fires can be quenched in
the Gehennas except the eternal punishing one where they are always
needed. The city dump had no fires
burning on the Sabbath when nobody worked.
Jesus is speaking of a condition where people will never get out of the
fire.
Gehenna could not have meant
the dump that existed then or that will exist in the future. It is the dreaded Hell of Christian dogma
that has put many a poor soul in the mental ward.
It is significant that the
earliest Gospel, Mark, makes it so clear albeit indirectly, that Jesus preached
eternal torment. It means that it is
likely that he really did so.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses and
the Christadelphians reckon that Gehenna is death or the grave for the dump,
Gehenna, was the resting place of the wicked.
Jesus would not have used the image of Gehenna for the grave for it is
not a good image because Gehenna is a dump and burns. People aren’t dumped into death for God takes
life and dumps nobody as if they were rubbish.
It is he that lets the murderer’s knife kill for he could turn it into
paper. Death doesn’t burn. Death isn’t always horrible as in
Gehenna. Death is never a punishment in
Gehenna for it is a dump for dead bodies not a place of execution. If it is then the grave is a bigger
punishment than death and that is stupid.
Gehenna is a good image if it is a place where half-dead people are
thrown into the flames showing that they are completely rejected and
degraded. Not even once does the Bible
hint that Gehenna is physical death alone.
According to the Church, there are degrees of punishment in Hell. Not all the souls there are punished to the same extent.
That is all the Church says. Perhaps the best person in Hell suffers a tiny bit less than the Devil meaning that practically speaking there is no real difference. It means the Christian has no right to protest if one sees Hell as extreme or near-extreme torment for everybody for the Church says you are only bound to believe what God has revealed and he has revealed nothing about the severity of the punishment.
The people in Hell are supposed to have chosen it and turn their backs on God and so have everlasting torment inflicted on themselves. If they are to blame for this endless evil then they must deserve extreme torment. They must get it too for Hell is where you go when you have to face your just reward.
The Bible denies that there
is a second chance. Your final destiny,
Heaven or Hell, is settled at death.
The most important verse on this is Hebrews 9:27. It tells us that just as Jesus died once to remove sins and save (save means judge a person to be fit for Heaven here) so we die once and are then judged on sins.
John 8:21, 24 plainly say
that if you die in sin it is too late for you.
1 John 5:16, 17 says that it
is important not to pray for those who commit the sin that leads to everlasting
punishment – the sin of impenitence on one’s deathbed. This must be the sin that is meant for the
Bible commands prayer for those who can repent but this sin makes repentance
and salvation impossible for them.
Luke 16:19-31 makes it
likely that the final choice for damnation or salvation is made at death for
the rich man is in Hell and sick of it and mad for relief while his brothers
are still alive on earth.
Romans 6:7 says that when a
man dies he is finished with sin in the sense that he is delivered from
it. This implies that there is no
probation or testing after death. The
context is about deliverance from sin by the work of Jesus and is about those
who have accepted this. So it is those
true Christians who die who are finished with sin when they die. If you want to include the damned then the
verse is saying that they do not sin after death but are frozen in whatever
evil they are carrying when they die.
The Catholic Church believes
that once you die rejecting God it is too late (page 112, The Life of All
Living).
The Bible teaches that Hell is everlasting torment and that those who die
separated from God will be lost forever and undergo unspeakable torment.
BIBLE VERSION
The Amplified Bible
FURTHER
APOLOGETICS AND CATHOLIC
DOCTRINE, Most Rev M Sheehan DD, M H Gill & Son,
APOLOGETICS FOR THE PULPIT,
Aloysius Roche, Burns Oates & Washbourne LTD,
ENCHIRIDION SYMBOLORUM ET
DEFINITIONUM, Heinrich Joseph Denzinger, Edited by A Schonmetzer,
‘GOD, THAT’S NOT FAIR!’ Dick Dowsett, [OMF Books, Overseas Missionary
Fellowship,
HANDBOOK OF CHRISTIAN
APOLOGETICS, Peter Kreeft & Ronald Tacelli, Monarch,
HAVE WE TO FEAR A
DEVIL? Fred Pearce, The Christadelphian
Office,
HEAVEN AND HELL Dudley
Fifield, Christadelphian Publishing Office,
HELL – WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS
ABOUT IT, John R Rice, Sword of the Lord,
JEHOVAH OF THE WATCH-TOWER,
Walter Martin and Norman Klann, Bethany House,
LIFE IN CHRIST, PART 3,
Fergal McGrath SJ, MH Gill and Son Ltd,
RADIO REPLIES VOL 1, Frs
Rumble and Carty, Radio Replies Press,
REASON AND BELIEF, Bland
Blanschard, George Allen & and Unwin Ltd,
THE BIBLE TELLS US SO, R B
Kuiper, The Banner of Truth Trust,
THE DEVIL, THE GREAT
DECEIVER Peter Watkins, The Christadelphian Birmingham, 1992
THE ENCYCLOPAEDIA OF BIBLE
DIFFICULTIES, Gleason W Archer, Zondervan,
THE FOUR MAJOR CULTS, AA
Hoekema, Paternoster Press,
THE KINDNESS OF GOD, EJ
Cuskelly MSC, Mercier Press,
THE LIFE OF ALL LIVING,
THE REAL DEVIL, Alan
Hayward, Christadelphian Bible
THE REALITY OF HELL, St
Alphonsus Liguori, Augustine Publishing Company,
THE SERMONS OF ST ALPHONSUS
LIGOURI, St Alphonsus Ligouri, TAN,
THE TRUTH ABOUT HELL, Dawn
Bible Students, East
WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY
ABOUT HELL? Radio Bible Class,
WHATEVER HAPPENED TO
HEAVEN?, Dave Hunt, Harvest House,
WHEN CRITICS ASK, Norman Geisler and Thomas Howe, Victor Books, Illinois ,1992
WHY DOES GOD? Domenico
Grasso SJ,
THE WEB
The Bible Vs the Traditional
View of Hell by Babu Ranganathan www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/5862/hell2.html This page argues that the wicked will suffer
agony for a while in punishment for their sins for a while after their death
and then be put out of existence. It
says that Matthew 10:28 promises that the wicked will be destroyed body and
soul in Gehenna meaning be destroyed entirely. Then it points to Isaiah 34 where